tv Hardball With Chris Matthews MSNBC May 22, 2012 11:00pm-12:00am PDT
these people we've done that step. move on like everybody else has. if i embarrassed the state, i apologized. that certainly wasn't my intent. you can have the last word online. watch my show weekdays at 3:00 p.m. eastern. >> let's hear it for joe. >> making money for your investors is not the president's the bain mutiny, let's play "hardball." good evening. i'm chris matthews up in boston. you have heard of the cane mutiny how a bunch of world war ii naval officers overthrew the ship's captain. now each going and saying he is dead wrong, the president is
dead wrong, to attack mitt romney over his job-killing history with bain capital. we have one of the officer here tonight, ed rendell along with jim howlman free enterprise, that's how they are eyeing it, including governor rendell. the buzz feed art reads as follows. rendell joined the can chorus of criticism of obama's takes on finance whose leaders have written checks to many members of both parties i think they're very disappointing rendell said, -- governor rendell, big question. are you with the obama campaign as it is run right now or are you against it? >> well, neither -- either/or. i think the president has done a good job, chris. you and i have discussed it. i would like to see him emphasize the terrific things he's done under the circumstances. and the ad itself, of course he has the right to go after
governor romney's claim he is a job creator because of his work at bain. that's the main thrust of his rational, because he is a businessman and he knows how to create jobs. he didn't create jobs, he created wealth and let's examine that. i think the media has the responsibility to take all of the deals that governor romney did at bain, look at them and were they net job creation or net job loss? governor romney said '94, 10,000 jobs created. now he says, tens of thousands ever jobs. so the obama campaign has a right it say to the american people, this guy says he is a job creator. it isn't so. and that is a legitimate question. like when i ran for governor. i said i was a great mayor. my opponent had the right to say, well, education wasn't so hot in philadelphia, was it? and i had the right to answer
that. >> governor, you've been thrown no a chorus now because you, after cory booker said that the obama campaign ad was nauseating, you jumped in with the adjective saying you were disappointed in the ad campaign. are you disappointed in the ad work done on behalf of president obama in this campaign? >> i'm disappointed in virtually every political ad right now. because they are all negative. they all slam. no one talks about the good things we've done in politics. and it is one of the reasons that this is so much voter dissatisfaction and so many voters who don't have confidence in the government. but is this a fair topic, chris? of course it is. would i make the ads different in tone? sure i would. but this deservees a full examination of whether rof gof nor romney is a job creator.
i think when the president said he created wealth, not jobs, i think that has a great degree of accuracy. but i would love to see the way we run campaigns in america totally changed. >> okay, john, you covered this campaign. you are looking at a game change again, perhaps. looks to me like the republicans got what they wanted. they wanted an articulate spokesman against the president. they have them in core cory booker. they've got some really good people here seeming to be making their case to mitt romney and his role at bain is not fair game. >> i'm not sure that -- yes, chris. certainly they are using these were they have talking point on this. and look, the bottom line is, that private equity is a bipartisan profession. there are lot of people who are democrats, rich democrats, in
private equity. it is not reasonable to think that someone like steve ratener would defend the notion of private equity. and you will find democrats all over the country to do that. i think ed rendell is make point, it is very tricky, this argument, that president is trying to make. it is clear it is fair game. there is no doubt when romney sites this as his main credential as job eator, the obama campaign will rightfully look at it. he doesn't talk about his job creation in massachusetts, because it is not very good. when he sites bain, the obama admin goes after it. a lot of democratic donors and officials have gone into private equity. they won't find people unequivocally applauding the president when their profession is being attacked. >> ier being kind to these equity people.
they are not only applauding the president, they are trashing his campaign, calling it nauseating on "meet the press." let's here what it is when people like cory booker say they are nauseated. this is the only one out there right now. let's listen. >> ways a steel worker for 30 years. we add reputation for quality products. it was something american-made. and we weren't rich. but i was able to put my daughter through college. >> a paying job that you could support and raise family on is hugely important. >> that stopped with the sale of the plant to bain capital. >> like a vampire. they came in and sucked the life out of it. >> like watching an old friend bleed to death. >> what's wrong with the ad, governor? >> well, the vampire stuff is a little strong. when i said the tone of the ad.
the other stuff is verilied mat. romney put on ads that bain helped people get their jobs. this is fair game. i think the obama campaign should have stayed with that. that under bain, x number of companies went bankrupt. that's not the case for a lot of priefr at equity firms. it is for some but not for all. plenty of good grounds factually. but vampire, that got me as a little off in tone. but again, i think what john said is right. this is the central issue in the campaign and this is romney's claim to why he will be a good president. so it's got to be examined, chris. it's got to be. >> let's look at the president. here i think the president was forced to tilely define exactly what he is talking about here and what he is exactly saying is a gi like romney shouldn't be saying, i'm the perfect
candidate for president because i ran bain. here he is making that case yesterday in his press conference, let's listen. >> the reason this relevant to the campaign is because my opponent, governor romney, list main calling card for why he thinks he should be president, is his business experience. when you're president as opposed to the head after private equity firm, your job is not simply to maximize profits. your job is to figure out how everybody in the country has a fair shot. >> and so, if your main argument for how to grow the economy is, i knew how to make a lot of money for investors, then you're missing what this job is about. >> let me go to john. it says to me that we are not arguing about nuance here. this governor put together a campaign in different economic
circumstances. he inherited a pile of crap in terms of the economy. he is trying to do a good job. he brought the economy off a bit. but he won't let someone like romney come in and say, i'm mr. clean, i will fix the economy based on my record at bain. this sh what he does. this is about the top 1%. this is about the buffett rule. this is about the rich. this is about guys like romney. okay, that's the coloration about it. about it is also a guy like him, even with his sleeves the way he rolls them up, is not the guy to fix the economy. >> let me get back it john on the outside of the campaign. my concern is that this idea he has to be so fine-tuned and carefully about those who depend on their pals on wall street, if he has to be so dainty and tiptoe through the tulips to make his point, he will never
make it. give him some elbow room it make the point, that these are not the heroes of our time, these guys. these equity guys won't come out and save the country. >> welcome to the democratic party. the democratic party is a party based on wall street. not like there's the president has -- that's just how it is. >> but these rules of engagement. the governor setting are so careful. don't offend anybody. be careful -- governor, you have run negative ads. everyone does. but you said you don't believe in negative ads, give me a bring, you guys all run negative ads, don't you? >> i ran very few. but chris, do you think vampires is a good way it describe what they did, what bain did? i don't think they are vampires, but i didn't think they are job creators. john, correct me if i'm wrong on
the facts here. they took a hundred million out and i understand workers lost part of their pension and almost all of their health care. couldn't they have taken 80 million out and save some of that money to give work ears little pension and healthcare relief as they are losing their jobs? isn't that a legitimate question about where your values are? >> of course it a legitimate question. look, what case is that there are and i will cite steve ratener on this point, i know the obama campaign has all of them, where they behaved in a way where there is a case where they were -- where workers were harmed in way that is atypical of private equity. so you will hear about those cases. it is not the majority of what bain did. but they are real cases and those are the cases that the
president and his team will focus on and they will hit them really hard. i think that there is just no way in which this isn't at the center of things and chris, you know, i don't know what rules of engagement are but i think it just points to the difficulty of the president's position. the president is simultaneously trying to run a populous campaign and also he is looking at a situation where he is probably outspent in this election and is trying to raise a ton of money. convince people in the democratic party to write big checks to the super pac. it is a delicate position. you can't just be a full thwarted populist -- >> then what does the democratic party stand for? >> i'm not defending, i'm just telling his his position. he's in a box. >> here is the problem.
this week, this electoral week and this campaign which is just getting started, a guy selling his self on national television, aer is gate for the president. and then basic there i said the president was nauseating him with his advertising campaign. with basically saying that he fires people, so does romney. we're the good guys. we have to fire people to get things done. basically challenging the president on everything he's been saying. i'm telling you, this is a problem. and i'm telling you the republican are having a a joy week over this. that's my concern. and an easy one. this is a like a turnover in sports. a turnover. >> chris this is. >> go ahead. >> can i suggest to you, you're right and sawyer was right when he said, we don't belong it any party, we're democrats. but no one associated with us saying what happened in the primaries mattered because it is a an etch-a-sketch moment.
in the end, you and i know and john knows, this comes down to the acceptance speech at the convention and three debates. when it is as close as this is, that is what will decide it. no one will remember the ed rendell or cory booker or, what is the etch-a-sketch guy's name? i already forget. >> remember that spit ball speech, cory booker is working for his job. thank you ed rendell, thank you john. coming up, where are the democratic surrogates that should be out there supporting obama? why don't we hear from the loyalists? where are they? we will find out. the nbc wall street journal poll, these are strange group of people, by the way, republican money men think they figures a way it hit obama at hardest. very interesting what their plan is, we figure that one out. let me finish with the central condition of the obama campaign. will democrats going to back him on this campaign, economic fairness this is "hardball" place for politics.
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been out on television? >> oh, i've been out there. but i also had my twins this past weekend so i've been busy being a mom too. number one responsibility. >> i've been missing you. >> i've been there. >> we also want to see parties in combat. i want to show you something right now, what i think surrogates should be done. we know this guy isn't always on message but when he is, he is pretty good. here is biden attacking the romney's rational for running for president today. let's watch the vip. >> he says he is certified to be commander in chief because of his business experience. it is not an irrational argument, but depending on the business. and your success if the business. >> that's their job, it's legitimate. it's legitimate, but making money for the folks or communities that are wasted is another question. folks, making money for your
investors, which romney did very well, is not the president's job. the president has a different job. >> there you have it, the president has a different job. >> there you have it, congresswoman, madam chairman, seems to me, not an a plus performance but pretty good performance, echoing the president's argument. that romney is not an evil person and may not be a vampire but to say his work as head of bain is some great preparation for presidency is not true. why don't we have the whole
cabinet out there doing it? why don't we have governors, senators and an orchestra? someone saying you do saturday, you do monday. all i hear is a solo act from the president. broken by the -- well, not purposefully sabotaging but they sabotaged this whole operation this week. >> chris, we are fortunate we have a very broad and deep surrogate operation in which we have many different kinds of leaders across the country political leaders, elected officials, community leaders, organizational leaders who are out there as spokespeople on behalf of the president of the united states. and making the case for his reelection. and that's because they believe in his candidacy. they believe in his record of accomplishments. >> who are they? i don't hear them. which members of the cabinet are out there speaking for the president politically and for
his reelection? >> secretary sebilius. remember, there are some cabinet members that are restricted and unable to advocate on behalf of the president like attorney general and secretary of state, secretary of homeland security. so you won't see those cabinet officials out there because they are appropriately doing their jobs. but you do see secretary salizar, secretary of commerce, secretary of energy. you have -- i was just down in south florida with ambassador susan rice who came down to talk with the jewish community. she wasn't down it talk about the president's candidacy but about his record of accomplishment and support for israel. so we have internal surrogates who are making the case for the president and then we have a number of, and widespread, outside surrogates, like
governor ted strikland for example. former governor of ohio. and governor rendell and myself and broad range of members of congress. donna edwards. there is a very long list of surrogates for the president. and they have been out there repeatedly. >> you know, i don't see it. >> i'm not sure how you're not seeing it. >> i watch a lot of television congresswoman, i got to tell i, it looks like solo act. the president had to explain his position yesterday when he was being assaulted by the mutanteers, by ratener, booker and rendell. i didn't hear anybody jumping to his defense. did you? >> i think there are times when you -- when it is appropriate it put a surrogate out there and there are times when president obama believes that there is no one better than the president himself to stand up and make the
central case that because mitt romney has been repeatedly saying that his central qualification for the presidency of the united states is his record at bain capital, i think it is entirely appropriate for the president to make sure that voters and voters in this country understand that that is not a qualification for president. and if he is representing that it is, then a close examination and close scrutiny of that record is entirely appropriate. >> okay. thank you very much, u.s. congressman debbie wassman schultz. let's bring in michael from "time" magazine. this looks like a patent failure to put together a really good surrogate operation. >> it's been a complaint. i heard it in 2009 and 2010 from the white house, one of the reasons they brought in bill daly, that they wanted more surrogates. people to go on tv for them.
daily is out. they've never been able to pull it together. they went through a couple of commerce secretaries. the congresswoman is right. they do have some people out there. ted strickland i think has done an excellent job. they have some internal people doing a good job. but you have a few things coming together here. first, the president and his first year of administration was the administration and they were there everyday. they didn't realize until the end of the year they needed people to take the heat off him. i think the president long looked down on this cable news chatter, the on-air war that happens. they never prior advertised it. they took a long time to respond to glenn beck, took a long time to wake up to the tea party. so it never had the priority other white houses had. and third, i think you saw it
there with governor rendell. have you a situation in which the gravitational poll of the president, the leader of the democratic party, is diminished. have you politicians and ex politician looking out for their own brands who don't want it sign on to what will be a very vicious and negative campaign. they don't want to tarnish themselves. cory booker is doing that. ed rendell is doing that. that is a problem for the campaign going forward. >> whose job is it to orchestrate the surrogates. to recruit and orchestrate them? >> everybody does it. it should be the white house normally but right now the campaign is controlling that. dnc controls it. but yeah, i think your point is well taken for another reason. the obama campaign this year is playing money ball. playing for little incremental wins.
ground game. things like that. these failures matter. it is hard for them to argue that even though this is not something that people will really be remembering on election day, their ability to build the narrative will remember and little things matter. that's the drum beat you constantly hear out of chicago. my guess is, because of this blow-up, they get their stuff together. they have people out there. an antonio in los angeles has done good. strickland has done good. you will see, people getting a talking to before going on air. that didn't happen with booker before he went on "meet the press" but i would be surprise fed the campaign doesn't allow anyone on again before sitting them down and saying, you have to understand the stakes here. >> a bigger way of saying perhaps, that you don't look like you are commanding the united states and leading a country unless you seem to have people working for you and speaking for you. it doesn't send a signal of a leader. it sends a signal of a solo act. i think often the president looks like a solo act and i don't think that's good.
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today, president obama tossed around a football at soldier field, home of the chicago bears. obama told biden to go along, then he hopped into his car and drove away. >> that's pretty good. back to "hardball." you're watching the side show, obviously. let's go right to the gop clown show, back to it, rather. yesterday was donald trump saying, quote, let them go at it, encouraging pro-romney pacs linking obama with reverend jeremiah wright. well, trump's got company. >> i thought so in 2008 and that's why i went rogue, if you will, and disagreed with some john mccain's advisers when they said no to the issues like pass associationes and reverend wright and bill heirs and help shape obama's world that needed to be off the able and not
discussed. i disagreed then, i disagree now. obama back in 2008 was an empty vessel. it's not too late to change course, and this next go-round understand what has filled up this vessel. who are these people? who are the radicals, the marxist professor he said he would hang out with and some of his friends in association. >> i think her briefing papers have the weight of a comic book. there you have it, that's sarah palin, the so-called game changer calling for more thorough vetting of president obama. i would put vetting in her case more to use. now let's catch up with the vps case. see if you can figure out which running mate is behind this nugget. this person was asked yesterday if they had been contacted by team romney about the vetting process. the comeback? quote, of course not. if i thought that call was
welcome back to "hardball." who is going to decide this year's election? romney remained steady at 43%. the president's approval rating almost remains study dropping 1 point to 48%. while the majority ever voters have made up their minds there remains a small percentage who say they are unsure or unimpressed with either of the candidates. over that small a group that campaign is being fought. as peter hart one of our polsters summed it up never has so much money been spent by so many to persuade so few. what do we know with those few?
they overwhelmingly think the country is headed on the wrong track. yet while their views of obama are mostly negative with romney scores even worse with them. you know, i think this is fascinating, chuck. i know have you been talking with others, producers, and i almost think of them as ross perot people. they don't like the way people run this government. they don't like maybe people in general. they've add hard life. but they don't like the cut or jib of mitt romney at all either. >> let me explain what we did. every month, we have this 7 to 10% that's decided. so we pulled the undecided from three or four straight polls to get a larger number of folks so you can figure out who they are. boy did we figure out who they are. they are very negative on the president, very negative on romney. but the person that are not
negative on, is ron paul. these are the no bs voters. burned out on the bs. they don't want to tinker with washington around the edges. they want it massively demolish this place. and that's what you see in here. they think the can country is more on the wrong track than the rest. they think the president is doing a worst job than the rest. they have a worst view of mitt romney's image. it is this whole thing. these folks, though, mitt romney i would argue may need it more. these folks strike me as people that may not vote. and that's what should be the scary thing if you are mitt romney. he needs them more than obama -- >> who do they hate more? who do they mistrust more? the bureau considerate with the attache case and the peanut butter sandwich coming to bother them. or the win that comes in and
cans them and makes money that he invests for people. >> that's a good question. if you answer that question then you would find out where the undecideds would move. that is the hobson's choice for these people, if you will, frankly chris. because they don't like the way government, they feel government intrudes on them. they don't like a lot of those things. but as you point out, they mistrust. maybe they've been -- i always half joked, a lot of your typical ron paul supporter is a highly educated i.t. guy. they don't trust anyone with the title of coo, cfo, or ceo either. >> i think i know some of these guys. take a look at this. by huge margin they think the country is on the wrong track. you pointed that out. 71% say that. asking what they think of the president, 27% give a positive rating. that's one in four.
but ask about mitt romney, 9%, chris, 9% like the looks of this guy. >> yeah. i mean, chris, look. i think chuck is right. these people are called disaffected for a reason. they are disaffected with the process. but what that 9% number does suggest is that if the obama team, i think it is a big if, but if the obama team can accomplish their goal, which is, this is a choice between what barack obama has done and will do, versus what mitt romney says he will can do, if they can make the 2012 election a choice, then mitt romney, to undecided disaffected voters isn't all this appealing a choice. if it is a referendum, essentially, look, you have two choices, barack obama is a, mitt romney is b. if you don't like a, your only other option is b, that's how romney ends up winning against the undecided voters.
he won't go from 9% favorable to 55% favorable. his favorable numbers will never be great. he just has to convince them he ve, if they want it fire the guy currently in office. >> does it strike you, chuck, this the issue you of equality or same-sex marriage, or go with the numbers here, no impact on the voters it seems? >> not only that, but how about the second question we ask, which said if you would be in favor or would approve of same-sex marriage being legalized in your state, cha what is interesting there, a four-part question that they would push for. highly supportive, but not try to actively get it passed. then you have the ones that say, i wouldn't oppose it but wouldn't actively raise the repeal. when you look at the balance one see the shift. it is a passive shift toward approving gay marriage.
put it this way, any state that passes it, it'll be hard to see outside of the religious, more religious based southern voters. and southern states. you are not going to see states try to -- people want it see rights taken away, if you will.. but chris, you start with this one. mitt romney has major obstacles in this poll. coming through with key blocks ever voters one might say on the nbc wall street journal poll. look at this, 34% lead among hispanics for the president. 15% gap, if you can believe that, for women. women voters out there, he is going to win. >> i think they're right. if you look at the math, chris, again, margins are relatively slim here but i think anything above about 13%, the math just becomes difficult. look, women is have about majority of the electorate since
1980. if they continue to be a majority, 52, 53% of the electorate. if you are losing that big after chunk by 13, 14, 15 or higher, the math becomes, the numbers don't add up at some point. i this i if romney can get it down to 10, 9, even 11, he could win. the reality on both sides, especially for romney, is that romney is not winning this election. i would be stunned if he did, with 52, 253, 54% of the popular vote. if he wins, i think he wines with 50.7. 51.3. the can country is just so divided that a particularly with romney and his path. it is hard to imagine popular vote wise or electoral vote that he wince with a sweeping majority. the numbers don't add up. >> i don't agree with that. >> o. >> i think romney's key here is the larger argument. if he wins -- in toward order to get to 50, he has to win the
argument that will make the economy better. if he does that, i think getting from 50 to 52, 53, becomes easier. there is not much margin for for error. >> i'm with you. this might surprise you, but i'm with shelly, our numbers guy. it is too early to call. i have no idea -- i have learned, it is too early, not too close. because it could well break this campaign. we don't know. it could break in the fall, i think. anyway, thank you chuck todd, thank you chris cillizza. me dimensional color. now!? what if it comes out wrong? [ gigi ] nice 'n easy gets your right color every time. guaranteed. in one step get tones and highlights for a gorgeous result. surprise! surprise! surprise! surprise! i had no idea. [ gigi ] get the color you want every time with nice'n easy. and now new non-permanent nice'n easy. natural looking tones and dimensional shine
the financial industry, rescued the auto industry and led us out of the worst economic downturn. but he stopped short of endorsing obama. >> the beautiful part of being a private citizen is you can can decide when to throw your weight, if you want it throw your weight. i'm still listening to see what republicans will do to fix the fiscal economy. i think i owe that to the republican party, i owe that. >> general powell, keeping his powder dry in the war for now. we'll be right back.
we're back. you've heard it from republicans before. president obama is a socialist. he is not an american. he want it destroy the country. well, karl rove's super pac crossroads gps decided that's exactly how not to win this coming election. swing voters apparently don't like those kinds ever attacks. so rove's group is spending $10 billion on a new ad campaign in ten states across the country that instead says in effect, the president has tried and failed. michael steele, msnbc political analyst. cynthia tucker is a syndicating columnist and professor at university of georgia. here is the crossroads campaign that will begin running tomorrow
in swing states across the next three weeks. big money behind it, $10 million. it is aimed at people disenchanted with the president. let's watch karl rove's money in action. >> i always loved watching the kids play basketball. still do. though things have changed. they can't find jobs. and i can't afford to retire. now that we are all living together again, i supported president obama's agenda but he spent like our country's credit card had no limit. good evening. welcome "the ed show."
obviously the decision sits in front of the president are the opposite of that. of spouse or partner of any kind, no male around the house there, that's the group he is really going for, it seems to me. if you want ar>> igree, complet. republicans tend to do well among married women. but they don't do nearly well among unmarried women. i'm not sure that ad wants to be clear about whether this woman is married or not. i think it is intentionally
ambiguous but leaves the viewer plenty of room to decide, she's not married. she said, i can't retire. the other thing i think that's interesting about this ad, the actress, the actor, says that she voted for obama before, so this ad is targeted at women who voted for obama before but whose finances haven't improved as much as they had hoped. so it is narrowly targeted, but clearly romney wants to wrench away some of those women who voted for obama in the past but may be open to voting for romney this time around. it's a good ad. you know, it has a couple of lies in it. as political ads want to do. but it's not harsh. strikes a softer tone. it's 5 good ad. >> what do you make of the fact that the people behind this ad don't want anybody to know who they are, michael? this is an absolutely tight
secret here in this gps ad, crossroads gps. we're never going to know who the people are that put $10 million together for rove. why do they keep their names secret? >> because they are not required to disclose that under the law. i think we have litigated this before. and it will take an act of congress to change that. and so, you know, there's no need for anyone to disclose, you know, their individual donation necessarily and certainly, you know, that's a accumulation of funds that paid for this ad. not one necessarily donor that made pour that. >> we don't know that. >> we don't know that. >> we don't know any of that. we don't know anything. >> but bottom line, chris, whether you are talking about gps or obama's super pac, it is the same reality that no one will say when mr. burton puts out ads on behalf of obama.
will he disclose who contributed to that ad? no, he doesn't have to. >> but the point that the people paying for the ad are not the single women out there voting for obama the last time. there is no "we" involved in this, cynthia. >> they don't have the money. no, no, no, they don't have the money to fund the super pacs. >> these are the people voting against obama with everything they had. the people that dumped so much last time that couldn't beat him or doing it this time. >> you're cutting the angle but not make anything sausage. you can make whatever assumptions you want about the donors. the money goes into the pot, the pot is churn had, the ad is produced. that the reality. >> i believe in cleansing the fact of daylight, michael steele. >> so do i, chris. >> your own secrecy campaign. thank you, cynthia, tucker. you can defend the darkness of the fund-raising efforts. i know you're a clean guy, but
why you defend these people mazes me. >> i don't defend them. full disclosure. i agree, there should full disclosure but the law doesn't require that. >> i want to know who they are under that rock. i want to pick up that brick, rock, and see the bugs under there. big question for the obama campaign. are top democrats going to back him on his biggest issue or not? let me finish tonight with ♪ and you end up strapped for cash ♪ ♪ patching your board with duct tape ♪ ♪ so hit free-credit-score-dot-com ♪ ♪ find out what credit's about ♪ ♪ or else you could be headed for a credit wipeout ♪ offer applies with enrollment in freecreditscore.com™.
of their party. well, that's of course, an old typing drill. it can also be a call to obama democrats these days. he raised the banner of economic fairness. he said americans should share the cost fairly. that what the buffet role are about. he says that 1% shouldn't get special tax deals while others are getting life and death benefits. sounds like fdr, harry truman and bill clinton rolled into one. tougher point, does the president have the right it set the course after campaign or doesn't he. if president obama stakes out the position the democratic party should fight got fight of economic fairness why aren't people saying they should take up the cause of those who make the most of unfair laws whob benefit in annerned income treated in capital gains, benefit from money made off money, made from money off of